Adult Women Largest Gaming Demographic

[Grei]

This study has been making some waves in the last few hours.  Pretty much turning a lot of preconceived notions on their heads and of course that's not going over easily.

http://www.dailydot.com/geek/adult-women-largest-gaming-demographic/

The study can be found here for those who don't want to read a newsies take on it:

http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2014.pdf

[Kyuusaku]

If you want to keep your faith in humanity, don't read the comments on this over at Kotaku or gaming sites.  It'll make you want to vomit.

-- Kyuu

[Starfire]

I'd like to see a breakdown of how many women vs men are free play whales, casual purchases, or free only players.

I am a whale, for World of Tanks at least!

[Kyuusaku]

Starfire, why does that matter?

-- Kyuu

[Remi]

Because it'd be the only thing about the article that really would matter.   Woohoo, the Chromosome of the dominant faction is now different! 

So what?    Now more stats: are they playing typically male-oriented games?  Are they happy with those as is, want them to change, or just because lack options?
Are they putting in money or none at all?  Are they only good to target eyeballs for ad revenue, or are their wallets fair game?  etc.  This kind of data would be useful to put forward into shifting market focus.


Trouble is they give all sorts of wonderful 'stats' and don't correlate any of them.  By this, 1/3 of all players are past marketing targeting age, half play casual games on their phones, but care about graphics.  Half of the games played are casual, but only a quarter of games bought are casual, etc, giving us hardcore casuals.

Study rather seems nonsensical.   Without catagorising the data better, it's just someone throwing up a lot of random stats, to generate traffic.  That, and what's their source?  Sales I can see being easily validated, but that still leaves eastern vs western markets (c.f. cyber cafe patronage in korea/china).  PLAYING?  I'm seeing NDP as a source for a lot, so you've a bias in population there, and then we're down to sample size, and their honesty.

Also have to disagree with grei:  we already knew a lot of old ladies played farmville, this study isn't proving too much. =P


The average human has one breast and one testicle~

[Lili Birchflower]

From the actual report (second link Grei posted):

The 2014 Essential Facts About the Computer and Video Game Industry was released by the Entertainment Software  Association (ESA) in April 2014. The annual research was conducted by Ipsos MediaCT for ESA. The study is the most in-depth and targeted survey of its kind, gathering data from more than 2,200 nationally representative households. Heads of households, and the most frequent gamers within each household, were surveyed about their game play habits and attitudes

As with any of these reports with sweeping claims to be the definitive truth about whatever, I find a study of 2200 households to be a ludicrously tiny sampling on which to base the results. 

Having said that, however, I'd like to know how this group determined what constituted a "representative household".  In my household, we all game and have for years.  Before the oldest son and our youngest (only daughter) left home, they also gamed though son was a pc gamer and daughter preferred console (plus Neverwinter Nights on pc).  Are/were we a "representative household"?

Overall, I find the results to be utterly non-surprising and a bit redundant. 

[Kyuusaku]

Lili, we cancel TV shows on samples around that size.

-- Kyuu

[Beo]

Lili, we cancel TV shows on samples around that size.

-- Kyuu

More importantly, we base decisions on whether a drug is effective based on smaller samples than that.  (Though in fairness, Phase IV testing -- side effects and a doublecheck of efficacy -- is usually more like 10,000)

Lili, the margin of error (at 95% confidence) on a proportion using 2200 samples is approximately 0.01 (actually less than that as p moves away from .5).    It'd be appropriate to call the Adult Males (35) vs Adult Females (36) comparison in this study a tie rather than a win for one or the other, for sure.  However,  all of those percentages they reported should be accurate within about a percent, provided the sample is unbiased, so they're believable even if the conclusions from the article are not...

...but Mire's arguments for how it's biased are pretty good  points.    In which case, ignore it all, bias kinda ruins statistics if you don't correct for it.

[Remi]

Thalidamide would like to comment that pointing out stupid is being done doesn't justify copying stupid.


In other news, 95% of people surveyed were in favour of abolishing criminal sentencing and using an 'honour system' for 'reallly really meant it when said I was sorry".
*in a double blind review of  59,000 prisoners serving 5 or more years, across twenty countries.




*shrug*  apples and oranges anyways.  With regards to drugs, people are people and the variations aren't that much (yes there are exceptions).  When doing statistics on something that is more-or-less cultural though, you're pretty much doing statistics on sociology and a small sample really wouldn't cut it.  Not for anything outside the culture sampled, provided you even remained within it.  Extending that idea:  a sample of 2200 humans...  fine... but 20 people in San Fran speak for San Fran?  The 10 Amish people I'll give you, but does one guy in the depths of Wyoming speak for the ranchers?  2200 people might be a significant sample to derive a result if all from the same population, but in this case, are all the people really the same 'population', or is this a wider net that touches some, over-represents some, and entirely missing others.


*cough* to quote: dis is not science, it lacks rigour!!

[Beo]

Thalidamide was also before modern biostatistical techniques for evaluating and approving drugs, but yes, there have been high profile screwups since then too.   Might be fun subjecting clinical trials higher certainty standards but... I think the industry would buckle under the financial weight.  Maybe that wouldn't be so bad though? 

Anyway, we're not in (complete) disagreement.  It's absolutely valid to say that if these 2200 households were sampled  from the US, they are not  representative of Mexico, nor China, nor Wyoming.   The first two because they were not a part of the population sampled, the last because it's a stratum within the population.   But it absolutely would be representative of the US as a whole -- provided proper sampling techniques were used, the data collected was of good quality, etc. etc.   There are about 100 disclaimers that we really ought to print on any statistics like these, but most people would fall asleep after the first one.  Regardless, this would indeed not say a damn thing about San Fran or the Amish, but only about the group proportion for the nation as whole.

And of course using the US to extrapolate to the whole world is utter folly.   If someone could manage the logistics of sampling 2200 households from the whole world (hint:  not. financially. possible.)  and looking at the proportions, I'd be comfortable with those saying exactly that -- the rate of participation in gaming among the global population, which again would not say anything at all about any given stratum -- first-world, third-world, northern, southern, temperate, equatorial, much less the constituent countries -- only that the sum of the parts has such a participation rate.   Remember, statistical theory is derived based on finite samples and infinite population sizes -- 2200 of 300m vs 2200 of 7b doesn't make an ounce of difference for the validity of the point estimate nor its confidence interval.

This is also why I hate any time an article uses statistics -- they never explain enough about the methods, nor do they caution the readers about interpretation s.

[Kyuusaku]

Extending that idea:  a sample of 2200 humans...  fine... but 20 people in San Fran speak for San Fran?

For the record, no one who is a true San Franciscan would ever call it "San Fran," or for that matter, "Frisco."  We say "San Francisco" or "the City."

-- Kyuu

[Lili Birchflower]

Well, I supposed it was expected to reveal that the largest group of gamers was teen-aged boys living in their mother's basements OR perhaps middle-aged men doing same.    I mean, girls don't game, right?  And ohmygodswhatar eyouthinking to suggest that women do so, as well!!!  

Pbfft, bunch of malarky.  Of course women game.  According to this study, just as many adult women as adult men find some sort of enjoyment and escape in a computer or console game.  Big whoop-ti-doo.  What was more interesting to me was the list (at the bottom of the study) of the top selling games:  The Sims expansions made up an awful lot of the rank-and-file in the pc division.  If *I* had been doing the list, I'd have left off most of the expansions.  I mean, really?  Is "The Sims: PETS!" really a separate game?

[Remi]

For the record, no one who is a true San Franciscan would ever call it "San Fran," or for that matter, "Frisco."  We say "San Francisco" or "the City."

[Starfire]

Starfire, why does that matter?

-- Kyuu

It doesn't.  I'm just curious.  Anecdotes from me indicate that most women playing F2Ps are free only players because their significant others play and they want to share their hobby or whatever.  There are those glorious ones that pick up a game and go bananas just because they wanted to, but they're far more rare.  I was just wanting to know if the actual stats matched my experiences.

[Kyuusaku]

Anecdotes from me indicate that most women playing F2Ps are free only players because their significant others play and they want to share their hobby or whatever.  There are those glorious ones that pick up a game and go bananas just because they wanted to, but they're far more rare.  I was just wanting to know if the actual stats matched my experiences.

Man, I don't even know where to begin on this one.  First, let me burst your assertion with this question: What if the woman's significant other is also a woman?

I play games within and without the guild alongside female players who are every bit as passionate and obnoxious as male players can be.   But as we continue to carve out the general and overriding notion that women are equal to men, why would gaming be any less different than other topics?  The "rare" ones you mentioned are not as rare as you might think, in spite of your personal experiences.  I think you have to broaden your horizons to include all gaming genres, not just the ones you're interested in.

-- Kyuu

[Lili Birchflower]

(On a mostly related note)

I remember, a couple years ago on our annual camping trip, 'the guys' were talking about gaming (there's a group of us who camp together on Memorial Day weekend and have for over a decade now).  Some of the games I didn't know anything about (CoD, MechWarrior), but when they started in about Guild Wars and World of Tanks (and a couple others) ........ well, let's just say that I rocked them back on their masculine heels when a girl suddenly joined the conversation and knew what she was talking about!

The looks on their faces was nearing awe, and as soon as they were over the shock, we had a lovely talk. 

Seriously.  I'm a middle-aged woman in the middle of the US.  If I game, it's a sure bet there's a lot more women who do, as well.  In my friends' case, I'd be willing to bet they do know women who game but have never thought to ask or thought to even entertain the thought.  And frankly, I've been called a liar (by prigs) or patronized with a "Farmville doesn't count, honey".  Seems to threaten some unseen (immature) masculine ideal or something. 

For the record, I loathe Farmville.

[Starfire]

Anecdotes from me indicate that most women playing F2Ps are free only players because their significant others play and they want to share their hobby or whatever.  There are those glorious ones that pick up a game and go bananas just because they wanted to, but they're far more rare.  I was just wanting to know if the actual stats matched my experiences.

Man, I don't even know where to begin on this one.  First, let me burst your assertion with this question: What if the woman's significant other is also a woman?

I play games within and without the guild alongside female players who are every bit as passionate and obnoxious as male players can be.   But as we continue to carve out the general and overriding notion that women are equal to men, why would gaming be any less different than other topics?  The "rare" ones you mentioned are not as rare as you might think, in spite of your personal experiences.  I think you have to broaden your horizons to include all gaming genres, not just the ones you're interested in.

-- Kyuu

If their SO is another woman, good for them?  I really don't care.  I can only speak to what I've seen, so that's why I'm curious about the statistics. If a whale woman (I'm talking gaming here!) is in a relationship with a free only player, that's great.  I have yet to meet one of those couples and know about it.

So yeah.  I'm pretty sure you all know about my stance on women and gaming.  (If not, it's "the more, the merrier")

[Lili Birchflower]

If their SO is another woman, good for them?  I really don't care.  I can only speak to what I've seen, so that's why I'm curious about the statistics. If a whale woman (I'm talking gaming here!) is in a relationship with a free only player, that's great.  I have yet to meet one of those couples and know about it.

So yeah.  I'm pretty sure you all know about my stance on women and gaming.  (If not, it's "the more, the merrier")

Ok, gotta ask.  What the ever-lovin' heck is a "whale woman". 

[Starfire]

In f2p games, whales are the people that spend large amounts of money on the game.  A whale woman is a woman that spends a lot of money on a game.  Some do this for one game and make regular purchases, others spend money across several games.

[Remi]

Ok, gotta ask.  What the ever-lovin' heck is a "whale woman".  

http://kotaku.com/who-are-the-whales-driving-free-to-play-gaming-youd-1197333118


As in 'the whale that if we harpoon, we make a fortune!'.  Casino lingo


edit: lino->lingo

[Ryiah]

Here is a stat that I came across....

100% of the Gaming Demographic are Gamers at some level.

The growing trend of trying to typecast or figure the demographics of the "Gamer" to maximize profits is killing the industry.

When Video Games first started to make their appearance in the world of pop culture people built games they wanted to play and or thought would be fun. It was this that drew like minded players to pick up that game and play it. It wasn't about maximizing profits if I cater to a certain demographic. We need to get back to the roots of making games for entertainment and fun factor not trying to up the last biggest thing to come along. To further debunk these stereotypes I am going to use Lilli (I apologize if these are not 100% accurate Lilli)

Lilli likes Neverwinter the MMO, I think it is meh at best. Lilli Loves Guild Wars 1, I can't stand it. Wild Star was very under whelming for both of us. Both are interested in Landmark.
I really enjoyed the Secret World, to my knowledge it hasn't peeked her interest to pick it up. Archage I am going to try the OB this weekend, its full PvP game might not interest Lilli in the slightest (this is where I step out a bit and made a judgement).

Lilli and I come from very different backgrounds/walks of life. Connor will be heard stating on numerous occasions on how we are different in personalities and clash. Some how though we have overlap in some games we enjoy playing why is that? Its not that we are the same gender, or the culture we were raised in. Nor the locations or even countries we grew up in. We might have the same interests in reading, but I am very SciFi in what I like to read with Minor Fantasy. Where I think Lilli is very heavy Fantasy (again could be wrong).

If you want to maximize potential of profits you will need to think and look deeper then the Macro characteristic s that make up a person and try to figure out the the micro interests.

And for heavens sake stop HUNTING whales it just irks more people then think.

To stop this dead in the tracks before it starts there is a difference in making a living from a game, and sucking the living soul out of you payer bases bank accounts....

Sorry if none of this makes sense I just had my wisdom teeth removed and might be on some good drugs. 

[Lili Birchflower]

Well met, Ryiah.

(I like most genres of reading, actually, except can't stand "romance" and "westerns" don't do much for me.  Right now I'm reading science fiction - as in out-in-space sci-fi , but I do enjoy mixing it up - right up to and including non-fiction on a huge myriad of topics.  Just depends on the mood.)

ArcheAge was incredibly appealing to me in concept, but the massive move to micro-transaction left me with a bad taste, and I have no intention of subbing.  The Secret World sounds interesting, but you're right - not piqued enough interest to try. 

But to take things a bit further out of stereotype, I really like World of Tanks.  And Warframe.  Both are heavily male-centric, stereotypically.

I would agree 110% with the need to return to making games that people want to play five, ten years down the road rather than the ones that make a huge splash and are ghost towns in a year or less.  There are so many clones; how many zombie survival games are either in the making or just released? 

Wait a minute --- does that mean we actually do have reading preferences in common?  We're going to have to stop this, Ryiah, or people are going to start talking!   

Hope you get to feeling better.

[Remi]

Personally loved Secret World for story, setting, lore, music, puzzles.
Combat in it makes me want to rip out eyelashes from boredom.  It's the only reason I don't play it.

[Mistina]

Anecdotes from me indicate that most women playing F2Ps are free only players because their significant others play and they want to share their hobby or whatever.  There are those glorious ones that pick up a game and go bananas just because they wanted to, but they're far more rare.  I was just wanting to know if the actual stats matched my experiences.

Man, I don't even know where to begin on this one.  First, let me burst your assertion with this question: What if the woman's significant other is also a woman?

I play games within and without the guild alongside female players who are every bit as passionate and obnoxious as male players can be.   But as we continue to carve out the general and overriding notion that women are equal to men, why would gaming be any less different than other topics?  The "rare" ones you mentioned are not as rare as you might think, in spite of your personal experiences.  I think you have to broaden your horizons to include all gaming genres, not just the ones you're interested in.

-- Kyuue

Ok Starfire...I know a lot of female gamers who play everything from ffxiv to COD, I know a group of women, all over the age of 40 who get together once a week to play tabletop D&D.  There have always been women in gaming and I can't see why that is so difficult for some people. And I sure as heck didn't start gaming over 15 years ago to "spend time with my man" that's more than a little insulting and I'm surprised one of the other female guild members hasn't given you a little feedback on that but in truth they may have but I just couldn't read much past that statement.

And Kyuue I think I resemble the passionate and obnoxious remark roflmao!

[Lili Birchflower]

Ok Starfire...I know a lot of female gamers who play everything from ffxiv to COD, I know a group of women, all over the age of 40 who get together once a week to play tabletop D&D.  There have always been women in gaming and I can't see why that is so difficult for some people. And I sure as heck didn't start gaming over 15 years ago to "spend time with my man" that's more than a little insulting and I'm surprised one of the other female guild members hasn't given you a little feedback on that but in truth they may have but I just couldn't read much past that statement.

And Kyuue I think I resemble the passionate and obnoxious remark roflmao!

We're just being quiet, Misti, so he isn't scared away .

Actually, Budha (husband) played *all* the Final Fantasy series (up until they went pc) from the outset.  I was a little too busy with real life to do so - and FF never held any interest for me, anyhow.  He and the kids would play console games like Grand Theft Auto which, again, I only glanced at since it held no interest for me.  The only console game I really liked - and played the heck out of! solo, with the family and then with friends - was Champions of Norrath 1 & 2 (offshoot of EQ).

Computer gaming was a relatively new thing for me and only came into the scene about 15 years or so ago.  We experienced a heartbreaking medical issue, and Budha thought a game would be just the thing to get my mind off mourning.  He presented me with Darkstone; it served the purpose (more-or-less) and I promptly fell in love with pc gaming.  Joined an online community (can't really call Ironworks a guild) and branched off to Baldur's Gate, Dungeon Siege, Sacred, Neverwinter Nights, etc.  I relish the ability to escape into a different world with a different persona, kicking arse whilst chewing bubblegum, taking names and looking really awesome doing it.

So, Starfire, in at least these two cases - mine and Mistina's - we don't game to spend time with the mister.  We game because WE enjoy gaming.